Setting the Record Straight on CRSC and CRDP
Jan 14 2011
CRDP and CRSC are confusing programs. Our experience from talking regularly with uniformed members is that several misconceptions routinely pop up. We will address these common misconceptions.
But to start, a little history follows to help build a more complete understanding of the concurrent receipt programs. We take literary license with the legal references to provide a clearer illustration of how things work. This also puts the topics in the context of our discussions with service members.
Original ‘concurrent receipt’ law stipulated you cannot be paid twice for the same disability/service. This law still applies in some cases—more on this later. If you receive Service retired pay and VA comp, the VA comp is subtracted from your Service retired pay in the form of the ‘VA waiver.’ You ‘waive’ your Service retired pay to receive VA comp.
MOAA fought for legislation that would stop concurrent receipt laws from denying a Service member’s retired pay that was vested in their years of service. After all, you earned that pay through years service. VA comp should not be deducted from vested Service time since the VA pay is specifically designated as disability compensation. From this lobbying, new concurrent receipt legislation was passed and CRSC and CRDP were born. As the result, CRSC and CRDP restore the Service retired pay vested through years of service that VA comp denied you. This is a key point of concurrent receipt; concurrent receipt does not restore disability compensation from the Service. It restores longevity retired pay. Now we bust some misconceptions.
#1. There is a strong belief among people that CRSC is a new form of pay, a third paycheck if you will, above and beyond any Service retired pay and VA comp amounts. CRSC is a third form of pay but it is not an amount in addition to Service retired pay and VA disability compensation. While technically it comes to you as a third pay check, it is pay that restores your Service retired pay for all or part of the VA Waiver amount being deducted from Service pay. CRDP on the other hand is not a third form of pay. CRDP is the return of Service retired pay by decreasing the VA Waiver amount in your Service retired pay.
#2. CRSC is a “restoration” of Service retired pay. To “restore” Service retired pay implies two things. First, you were denied Service retired pay (through a VA Waiver) so it has to be “restored.” Second, the amount being restored can’t be greater than the original amount of Service retired pay denied. You can’t “restore” what was never denied in the first place. You can’t receive CRDP/CRSC retroactive pay unless you were denied Service retired pay in the past. This usually comes up as an issue when someone has been receiving CRDP for a time and later is awarded CRSC. If you were receiving CRDP, your retired pay was already being restored. The subsequent award of CRSC won’t get you back pay unless your CRSC amount restores more than you were already having restored in the past.
#3. Concurrent receipt restores Service retired pay so let’s carefully consider the phrase “Service retired pay” as it pertains to CRSC/CRDP. “Service retired pay” is pay that you earned through longevity; your time served. This is a big issue for members who were medically retired because you may have a Service retired pay amount that is more than the amount you earned based on your longevity.
Example: a person with a longevity retirement earns retired pay at:
- Years served X 2.5% X your base pay at retirement or high-3.
However, you medically retired folks may have a Service disability rating (not your VA rating) that makes your retired pay at retirement greater than the amount of pay based on the longevity formula just explained. With 20 years of service, your longevity retired pay is 50% of base pay. But a medical retirement with a Service disability rating of 60% gets a 60% pay out for retirement even if the service time is 20 years. Everything above 50% is considered a form of disability pay.
So CRSC/CRDP restores ‘Service retired pay’ which is only the retired pay that’s based on longevity. All the Service retired pay you receive above the amount due to time served is considered disability pay, not ‘Service retired pay’ and Service disability pay is not restored by any form of concurrent receipt.
In other words, the original concurrent receipt laws that state you can’t be paid twice still apply when it comes to disability pays. If the VA pays you for your disabilities, you can’t receive Service disability pay at the same time.
#4. The CRSC Glitch. For you members medically retired with less than 20 years service, you have a different issue to contend with. First, your CRSC amount is limited to your longevity portion of your retired pay. For many of you, this longevity portion is a small amount when compared to your total Service check. Next, you are limited in the amount of CRSC pay you receive to the amount of CRSC pay that is above the amount you receive for the Service disability portion of your Service retried pay. Here’s an example:
- Total Service retired pay (disability and longevity pay) $2000
- Service portion based on longevity $500
- Service portion based on disability $1500
- CRSC pay you are entitled to $800
- Actual CRSC pay (Entitled CRSC – Service disability) $0
This effect is known as the CRSC glitch. It’s a problem in how the CRSC law explains the pay formula, as shown above. Technically, everyone should get either all their entitled CRSC pay or CRSC up to the amount of Service retired pay based on their longevity. This is a problem MOAA is fighting to fix.
#5. Your CRSC check will equal your VA comp amount. Not necessarily so. VA comp is based on your total disabilities regardless of whether the disabilities were the result of combat. CRSC pays only the portion of your total disabilities that were directly related to combat. It is not unusual for a CRSC rating and the resulting payment to be smaller than the VA comp amount. This means you will continue to have a VA waiver amount in your Service retired pay.
#6. CRSC is always a better payment than CRDP. Not so. As stated in #5, CRSC is limited to combat injuries and as such that can be a significant limiting factor on the amount paid. CRDP is not limited to combat related disabilities so the amount is based on your total VA comp (plus the issue raised in #3). The combat related nature of CRSC is a basis behind its tax-free status while CRDP is taxable. Your CRDP amount may be larger to the point that even though it’s taxable, it still leaves more money in your pocket.
There may be times the amount of pay under CRDP is large enough that even after taxes it could be greater than a limited CRSC tax-free check. This is why your pay agency allows you a chance to select which version of pay you want during the ‘open season’ each December. As CRDP continues to phase-in over the years (until 2014), one year your CRDP amount may provide you the greatest take-home pay.
#7. “I get CRSC but a VA waiver is still deducted from my Service retired pay. Where is my concurrent receipt?” This misunderstanding is partially based in #1. Some folks think CRSC is a payment above and beyond all other pays. CRSC and CRDP are both forms of ‘concurrent receipt’ (used in the context of the phone calls). As such, a member can only receive one form of concurrent receipt or the other but not both simultaneously. The confusion seems to also originate in the manner in which the CRDP or CRSC is paid.
CRDP is paid by being reinserted back into your Service retired pay. You’ll note this in your Retiree Account Statement (pay stub) from your pay agency. With CRDP, your VA waiver disappears or gets smaller as CRDP is phased-in. Eventually, most of you will receive full Service retired pay and full VA comp (medically retired over 20 years of service may not see full Service retired pay). You won’t actually see a CRDP payment because the fact that you’ll receive full Service retired pay IS CRDP at work.
You CRSC folks receive a separate payment outside your Service retired pay and VA comp. CRSC is your form of concurrent receipt. Your Service retired pay stub will continue to indicate a full VA waiver amount as long as you receive CRSC.
I hope these explanations help clear the air on the major myths behind CRDP and CRSC. As other myths pop-up in future discussions, I’ll add to this post. Thank all of you for your service and sacrifices.
I applied for CRSC in Jun 10. Finally approve in 14 Oct ltr from CRSC folks. Todate, no action from DFAS. ph calls to DFAS, say they haven’t recieved notification ltr. Ph calls to CRSC promises return call to clear up this Catch 22. No return calls recieved. Think my next step is a formal written IG complaint to both DFAS and the CRSC Cmd. Any thoughts of other actions. The non reciept of back pay due since Jun from DFAS has already caused a tax event which will result in the need to issue a revised 1099-R from DFAS.
Pretty good article. I am eligible for CRSC and CRDP. but the CRDP exceeds that of the CRSC. So I accepted CRDP and not CRSC. The CRDP includes the disabilites found by the VA, just that one is the result of combat and the other is the result of combat and longevity issues (like wearing out my knees due to jogging).
Since my disabilities have been around since Concurrent Reciept came into existence and were of such magnitude that I could be compensated, I am near completion of the 10 years. I believe next year I will have 100% Concurrent Receipt and no longer have a VA “deduction” in my regular military retirement.
Oh yes, I retired due to longevity thus have over 20 years of service. That means I do have to suffer the indignities of early medical retirement, nor those of the reserve components.
Thanks to both MOAA (and the predessor, TROA) and DAV, I have been successful in dealing with the VA.
Pretty good article. I am eligible for CRSC and CRDP but the CRDP exceeds that of the CRSC. So I accepted CRDP and not CRSC. The CRDP includes the disabilites found by the VA, not just that ones as the result of combat but all of the other component disabilities as the result of combat and longevity issues (like wearing out my knees due to jogging).
Since my disabilities have been around since Concurrent Reciept came into existence and were of such magnitude that I could be compensated, I am near completion of the 10 years adjustment. I believe next year I will have reached 100% Concurrent Receipt and no longer have a VA “deduction” in my regular military retirement.
Oh yes, I retired due to longevity thus have over 20 years of service. That means I do not have to suffer the indignities of early medical retirement, nor those issues of the reserve components.
Thanks to both MOAA (and the predessor, TROA) and DAV, I have been successful in dealing with the VA. I am a life member of both organizations.
Great article but don’t forget about the CRSC glitch which denies some wounded warriors out of their proper CRSC payments. The CRSC glitch can be read about here:
http://www.pebforum.com/content/des-outrage-week-8-dod-s-crsc-calculation-glitch-42/
Mike
Thanks shane. I must admit, before speaking with you on at least 3 occassion, concering CRSC/CRDP, I was totally confused. You’re an asset to MOAA and the CRSC/CRDP community. Moreover, thanks to TROA/ MOAA for it’s untiring, unwavering lobbying on this issue. The CRSC/CRDP community are indebted to you, and TROA/MOAA
Semper Fi
Rufus
Will CRSC be terminated (in 2014 or thereafter) when CRDP is totally phased in?
thanks so much for clearing this up. what it in time for me to apply for crsc, I was simply told that it would be deducted from my retired pay. from what you’re stating that only happens if you did not receive service connected disability back pay from the va . since my v a disability pay is deducted for my retired pay I am going to apply for crsc immediately. thanks again.
Maybe it is because I am now 70 YO but, the above is not easy for me to follow. What I would appreciate is a series of questions that, as you answer would take you to the next step and finally tell you your best options.
For example: Are you Retired? Yes No
If Yes, are you VA disabled? Yes No
If Yes, over 50%
If Yes, did you serve in combat
….
Therefore, your best option is to apply for CRSC.
All the explanations are good for someone more alert than me. I just want to know the best alternative for me.
Thanks for your efforts.
I am still confused. You state that “CRSC pays only the portion of your total disabilities that were directly related to combat” How is that calculated? VA’s overall disability is not detemined by simple addition of individual ratings but rather like combining probabilities. Overall disability is, I believe, then equal to 1-[(1-R1%)*(1-R2%)*...] where Ri% is the rating for one disability for i=1..number of total disabilities..
I will admit I am still confused about CRSC and CRDP despite the excellent article Mr. Ostrom wrote on the issue. I have an additional question. Although I have a 60% disability form VA, I was denied CRSC in 2007 because the Combat Related Special Compensation Divsion said they were unable to determine if my disabilities resulted from a combat related situation. They made this decision despite an inch thick folder I sent to them from my medical file which indicated where the injury took place, when it took place and the circumstances in which it took place – to include combat zones and Ranger training. The only thing I could gather was that the medical file I provided them wasn’t enough witness to them and that they appeared to want some eye witness account or official record outside of the medical record.
Woodward…No. CRSC and CRDP have specific purposes and separate laws that apply to each. So both programs will continue.
It’s been five months since USAHR CMD received my application for CRSC, as evidenced by Certified Mail Return Reciept. Since then I’ve heard nothing back. How long should it take to process my application?
I’m confused by your #6 comment. My total retirement pay entitlement is currently reduced by the amount of my VA Comp. Taxes are then calculated on the reduced amount. I get a separate check for my VA Comp which is non-taxable.
It would seem logical when approved for CRSC the total amount of my retirement entitlement would be restored to the full full amount and then taxed. Plus, I would continue to get my separate non-taxable VA Comp check. Where am I wrong on this?
Also, since I’m was elgible for this benefit since the law was passed, I understand I would be getting an additional check for the amount I should have received since its inception, but didn’t. Is this correct?
What is a reasonable time for these actions to be accomplished?
Thanks,
John (Jack) Marshall
425-450-0828
I am curious about my CRSC pay. I am a medically retired USAF fighter pilot injured in a crash of my jet while flying with the 41st Fighter Interceptor Squadron in Japan in December 1952. I have been receiving VA Compensation based on my service connected 100% VA paraplegic disability. I have received CRSC authorization from the Air Force establishing CRSC offset pay from my VA compensation. I was retired with only two years of active duty service even though I had planned to continue for an indefinite number of years on active duty when my service ended with my accident.
I applied for CRSC and am receiving an additional $75 per month above my VA compensation. I have seen some comments for medical retirement with less than 20 years active service that might impact the award amount. Is that a correct amount for my situation?
Thank you for your consideration.
Robin I.Welch
I am going thru the CRSC “process” having been found eligible for CRSC (by the US Army). My decision letter dated in January 2011 finds me eligible for CRSC from August 2010. However, I have received no document from the DFAS offering the choice between CRSC or CDRP as stated in the decision letter. By phone, I am told by DFAS that I must write a letter to request CRSC which I have done.
Through out this process from application to VA in July2010 til the present, I have been receiving full retirement pay with no indication other than verbally that I apparently have been and continue to receive CDRP due to my 100% disability rating (published in November retroactive to August.) Further, I have now been told that CRSC is not retroactive but merely an annual choice looking only forward. If that is true why did the Service (US Army in my case) assign a eligibilty date in the past (coincidentally the same month as the VA disability award in the first place?)
thanks for the article-I have been confused about the two since I retired in 1988-with a 40% (non VA)disability. In 2003 I had prostrate surgery, and qualified for a VA disability because of the Agent Orange “presumptive cause” (VA has about 14 cancers/diseases that qualify-if you were in Vietnam for even one day!)
My VA disability exceeds the retirement disability-therefore,it is better to go with CRDP.But I have sent questions to the Army about why my retirement disability could not be upgraded to match my VA disability,then it would be better for me to go with CRSC.
any retirees out there have a similar situation?
I appreciate what’s been done so far to try and restore some of the retirement pay. However, it is not 100%. If I retired from the civilian world and had VA disability pay, my civilian retirement would not be reduced at all. It appears that one retiring from the military service is being penalized.
Don’t get me started. Ther are left behind veterans here. There are a small group of us with 20 years service who are not eligible for CRDP. I retired under Ch 61. I am 100% disabled (VA, 20% combat related) with 22 years service and 18 years active duty. People in my situation are the only group of retirees with 20 years of service who are not entitled to CRDP. Write your congressional delegation. A new law is the only way to fix this.
Good discussion and article, but I have one question. I am receiving CRSC for 100% combat related disability. If I die will my wife continue to receive this and my retired pay at the SBP rate?
Let me try to see if I have this straight. I retired from the Army after 28 years and through the VA I have been rated at 40% disabled. Currently, I received a reduced retirement check due to the separate VA check that is deducted and then separatly payed without a tax deduction. Does the law currently allow an application to restore my retirement check to its full amount and receive my VA disability compensation? If so, how do I do that. Or, because I am not rated at 50% or higher, will I continue my current pay arrangement for the foreseeable future. Thanks for your help.
Shane,
What about us Chapter 61 guys? Any changes regarding eligibility yet?
Thanks for being there and all of your enlightenment!
Being a retiree with a 40% VA rating, you do not have eligibilty for CRDP. CRDP requires a 50% VA rating or higher. Therefore, at this time, you only qualify to apply for CRSC. If you disabilities are due to combat, you can get some or all of your Service retired pay restored with CRSC. The Army determines your combat-related rating. Apply on the Army CRSC web site; https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/crsc/index.html. MOAA continues to fight for concurrent receipt for folks like you. If fact, you are among the 66% of the retiree (med and longevity) population with disabilities not eligible for CRDP. There are several draft bills floating around the halls of Congress right now to fix this problem. We initiated a few of them and found sponsors. See the MOAA web site under Take Action, Key Bills.
No. Survivors only get SBP or VA DIC. No part of pay that is paid to a Service member is paid to a survivor. Well…other than residual pay for a partial month, pay in arrears. SBP is based on your “base amount” as noted on your Retiree Account Statement from DFAS. If you covered your full retired pay, the 55% is based on your full gross amount of retired pay.
The Services and the VA are rating two different things. Service ratings are based on fitness for service, ability to perform the mission. The VA is whole body and how you compete for employment in the civilian world. VA comp is to compensate disabled military people for possible disadvantages in pay in the civilian world; healthy civilian employees vs disabled military members.
I would call the Service. Something’s not right. Maybe the Army’s move to Ft Knox has something to do with your delay. You are receiving CRDP now. CRDP restored your taxable retire pay and shows up in your DFAS check as more pay, less VA waiver. CRSC will be a special tax-free pay due to combat disabilities. The combat related injury status allows CRSC to be a special pay vice a true return of taxable retired pay. That’s why CRSC is not mixed back into your taxable retired pay. It is also why CRDP is open to ex-spouses thru divorce and CRSC is not. Retro pay is touched on in point #2. You have been receiving CRDP and if you were denied retired pay in arrears you would have received retro CRDP. Once CRSC is approved, if the retro period and the amount of CRSC is more than you received under CRDP, you will have some CRSC coming to you; whatever CRSC amount is over whatever you’ve already paid in CRDP.
Some points to address some of the concerns raised in the posts above:
1. CRDP and CRSC are two distinct programs and you cannot collect from both. CRDP is automatic while one must apply for CRSC.
2. CRDP requires a minimum 50% VA rating. The CRSC minimum VA rating requirement is 10%.
3. Only disability retirees need 20 years of active service to collect CRDP. Length of Service Retirees (LOS) retirees only need a 50% VA rating to qualify for CRDP. There are 50,000 + LOS retirees with less than 20 years of active service and they are eligible for CRDP if rated 50% plus by the VA. Most of these retired for LOS under the Temporary Early Retirement Authority (TERA). Chapter 61 retirees are the only class of retirees that specifically require 20 years of active duty to qualify for CRDP.
4. Your military service, not the VA, determines which conditions are combat related. “Combat related” includes more than “incurred in combat” conditions. See paragraph E3.P5.2.2 of DoDI 1332.38 for combat related definitions.
5. Indeed the VA rates for all service connected conditions while the military rates only unfitting conditions. Further, the DoD rating locks in on placement on the PDRL. The VA rating can increase or decrease over time. However, the DoD rating and the VA rating for the same condition, at the time of placement on TDRL or PDRL, should theoretically be identical as both are required to rate per the VASRD. Often the DoD and VA ratings for the same condition are different due to DoD low-balling or extreme subjectivity in the VASRD rating criteria.
6. CRSC is limited to the least of two factors, your LOS retirement amount or the amount of compensation from the VA for combat related conditions. So, often the entire offset retirement amount is not restored by CRSC. Indeed, those medical retirees with only a couple years of active duty will not receive much CRSC due to the LOS limitation factor.
7. The CRSC glitch prevents many Chapter 61 disability retirees from getting their proper amount of CRSC. See post #2, above.
Mike
Mike Parker’s point #5 should emphasis the “theoretical” part. At PDRL time i had to fight for an AF 50% rating while the VA rating was 100%. Multiple applications with lawyer (no less than Bud Day) representation resulted in no change in the AF position despite many errors in the AF rating which went against AF regulations.
Regarding point 3. MOAA should sponsor specific legislation to fix the fact that only Ch 61 retirees are REQUIRED TO HAVE OVER 20 YEARS AD even though SOME OF US HAVE OVER 20 YEARS SERVICE.
Thanks for this article on a very important subject.
I applied for and was denied CRSC in 2005. The reason given was “due to lack of supporting documentation we were not able to approve them as combat-related…”. I want to appeal but lack the knowledge as to how to do that in the way that would give me the best chance for a successful appeal. Please lead me in the right direction to a website, individual or other source for help. Thanks.
I am a National Guard member with a 90 per cent disability rating and am considered unemployable. I served 16 years and did several active duty tours. ( Titlle 10) I was retired as a Captain and put into the retired reserves, due to disabilty, but only receive VA compensation. I am currently 43 years old and cannot work. I know I had more than enough points for a reserve retirement despite retiring early. Am I, or will I ever be eligible for retirement pay?
D Gillett, use the Army CRSC web site. It has hints and doc suggestions: https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/crsc/index.html
Kathy, As a Guard member, unless you receive your Notice of Eligibility (NOE) letter from the Service at 20 “good years” of service stating you are retirement eligible, you are not retirement eligible and not able to receive retired pay at age 60. You state you had more than enough points for Reserve retirement, then you are Reserve retired and had a NOE. You don’t early retire unless you don’t have 20 years credit. However, you state you were retired early. This implies a medical retirement to me which is a form of active duty retirement and makes you eligible for immediate Service retired pay. I don’t understand being put out early and not being medically retired unless you were not “retired” but “separated.” Early separation would have paid you a separation lump sum payment. Wires are crossed somewhere.
I thought I understood CRSC/CRDP but it appears I’m more confused than I believed. I was medically retired, Ch 61 with more than 20 years active duty (US Army) with 90% rating, all combat related. My CRSC and CRDP are equal in amounts and both are non-taxable. Regardless of which I choose, there is no taxable event. So which should I choose or should I even bother to choose one over the other?
Additionally, I’ve notice on my pay stub from DFAS that there is still a VA Wavier offset and I can’t obtain a clear explanation why. I receive VA compensation at the 100% P&T rating too. So my questions are; if I’m receiving CRSC as a seperate check and the difference as a second check from my retired pay as disabilty pay from DFAS, plus a third check from the VA for 100% combat related disabilities. Why is there still a VA Wavier on my DFAS LES? Will this VA Wavier ever equal zero and stop being offset? Lastly, how will any change in CRSC/CRDP in 2014 or a new Law change effect me? This seems to be an issue that comes up each year when I receive my form letter from DFAS to choose either CRSC and CRDP.
Bryant, I agree. As hard as I try, CRDP-CRSC is so confusing, I can never find the exact words to explain in a clear unconfused manner.
If you receive three forms of pay, you receive CRSC. You receive Service retired pay with a VA waiver, VA comp and CRSC pay. The VA waiver will always be in Service check and the CRSC reimburses you for the VA waiver amount in your Service check. The VA comp amount is always paid in full.
If you receive two forms of pay, you receive CRDP. You get a Service check with CRDP added into it and a VA comp check. Under CRDP, the VA waiver amount is reduced in the Service check as the CRDP replaces the VA waiver amount.
Bottom line is you get full Service pay and full VA pay. You either get your Service pay restored by CRDP which reduces or eliminates the VA waiver amount in your Service pay OR you receive CRSC which pays you a separate check to compensate you for your VA waiver amount.
While generally this info applies to all people, individual aspects of people’s ratings and combet relatedness of the disabilities makes every person’s case uniquely different. No one can apply a blanket answer to their specific case. Every one re-read my article multiply times while applying the info to your specific situation. It may take several re-reads and comparing your pays to the examples before it all sinks in. I think Bryant’s situation is in example #6 of the article.
thanks, i keep thinking i understand the difference but i am always learning something that makes it clearer. i keep reading and learning, thank you for the 411.
MOAA has said there was back pay for CRSC back to 2003, is this no longer true?
T Smith, it is technically possible for CRSC retro payments back to 2003 if the circumstances work out for the individual. Since the two concurrent receipt programs have been around since 2003-2004, figuring retro payments are more complex than most realize. You have to apply to know whether you qualify.
Determing or getting VA disability in retro CRSC Award into amended taxes appears to be a problem
Assumption VA disability received is the CRSC amount to be used for amended tax value to reduce income for the retro period .
Advice requested,
Shane,
I applied for CRSC in 2005 and was denied because they were not able to prove “combat related”. I was in the infantry (1st Lt) and suffered a seizure, was medivaced to 93 Medivac Hospital but I guess that’s not enough. I’m 40% service connected disabled and the concurrent recirpt doesn’t work for me now or in the future. My only hope is CRSC.
Do you have any suggestions for me to appeal this ruling? I believe I have all the medical documentation I can get. I am at a stopping point until I can get some help to appeal the boards decision.
It seems like you have to bleed to qualify, I didn’t get a purple heart for my disability but it has never the less been something I have had to live with since 1970 and has been a detrement to my career.
I understand I am the type of person CRSC was created for but have been unsuccessful in getting it. Can you help me or point me in the right direction to get help to appeal my claim. I’m anxiously awaiting your answer.
David Gillett
[...] a previous post , I explained how concurrent receipt works and tried to dispel some of the common misconceptions. [...]
I was recently awarded a new VA disability payment increase of $214.00. And according to my Retiree Account Statement my net retirement pay decreased $160.50.
Prior to the VA disability increase of 214.00 my total net pay from military retirement, VA and CRSC was $5196.94($1333.00 from VA, $1064.00 from CRSC, and $2799.94 from DFAS).
Now on June 1, with the VA increase of $214.00 my total net pay from military retirement, CRSC and VA is $5250.44($1547.00 from VA, $1064.00 from CRSC, and $2639.44 from DFAS). This is a total increase of only $53.50 and coincidently my FITW at DFAS went down the same amount–$53.50.
There is possibly an explanation for the math shown above, but I don’t understand how with the VA increase of $214.00 I only realized a net increase of $53.50.
Thanks for listening.
Russ, When your VA comp went up so did your VA waiver amount in your Service pay. The VA increase and the resulting VA waiver amount cancelled each other out–net result, no total income change. The tax withholding is the only reason for the 53.50 change in your total pay. The increased VA comp is subtracted from your Service pay by the VA Waiver amount pre-tax which reduces your taxable Service pay income and a reduced taxable income probably drove your reduced tax withholding amount.
Shane,
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your taking the time to reply.
Russ Bailey
Hi shane,
This is a great article!
I do have one issue though, i was medically retired after 8 years 9 months from the army, and awaiting on my decision from crsc. My retirement amount is 641.00 and is waived by the VA. I am currently 90% with the VA, $2032 monthly. I was medically retired from the army back in 2004.
My question is this, if i am awarded crsc, would i even benefit at all from my retired amount that is waived?
I have tried the calculator and wow its so confusing! Must have been the ones trying to raise the debt ceiling and cut spending that did the mathmatical design on this, :/
Anyways, any help from you would be greatful as you seem to know what your talking about.
Thanks again!
Steven, unfortunately it is doubtful you will see anything from CRSC, and if you do, it will be a very small amount–a guess on my part since I don’t know your Service disability rating. I believe you’ll fall under what is known as the “CRSC Glitch.” The glitch is a quirk in the law that provides the formula to compute the CRSC amount. Technically, you should receive in the form of CRSC that portion of your Service retired pay represented by your years of vested Service time, 8 yrs/9 mos. Due to the legal formula glitch, you will probably be denied that amount. MOAA is fighting for a legislative fix for the glitch.
Thanks shane for your prompt response!
Sorry i did not give all the information in my previous posting.
My Army Retirement Rating is 30% from which i am being told was a lowball rating from the Army Med Board Docs. The reason i believe is because i was one of the 1ST to medically retire from the war in iraq as i was in the first wave from 2003 to 2004. I feel like the army pushed me out pretty fast and did not explain much of anything to me before i recieved my DD-214.
The $641.00 was a formulated amount from my base pay at the time.
I believe the CRSC Folks are trying to get me a % close to that of which the VA is rating me at for it.
I figured it would be a low amount if any considering the amount of my medical retirement.
Knowing the retirement of 30% do you think i am right as far as recieving little if anything?
Thanks again!
Steven
I am 100%CRSC qualfied and CRDP 100% qualified. I drew a bulk pay on May18th from CRSC. That is all I have received from CRSC but I continue to get myfull CRDP pay and my army retired pay. Every way I figure it by accepting CRSC money I will lose hundreds of dollars. To my belief the pay should not be taxeable. could you give me some help to figure this out. Thanks Scott
Steven- have you heard anything? Your situation is extremely close to mine.
Shane,
Great article brother!!! Greatly appreciated by us all!
I do have a specific question for you. I am active duty, just advanced to E-7 and recently had a spinal injury while underway. I had surgery but it looks like I may be retired or “medically retired” in the near future. I am about 7 months from my 20 year point. Just a little more information in regards to disability…I figured with all my service connected ailments, I should be around the 80-90% disability, or more, mark.
I have a few questions about what you think would be most beneficial in my situation. Should I put in for regular retirement at 20 years. (which factors my last highest paid 3 years for pension) OR should I wait for them to “medically” retire me? (Which, I’m guessing, would be whatever % the Navy gives for one disability of my current pay)
If I am “medically retired” would I be eligible for the CRDP? I would have over 20 at that point hopefully and be over the 50% from VA.
I work with a lot of people being seperated for medical conditions but my case seems to be a little different then others due to being so close to 20 years. Are people receiving CRDP now? And is it like receiving 2 payments each month, 1 from the VA Disability compensation and one from your pension?
Thank you so much for the assistance! It is so much appreciated. These new laws and instructions are so confusing.
Respectfully,
Stephen
Stephen W. You can be medically retired with under or over 20 years of service. The bottomline to follow is always get your 20(+) year retirement whether it is medical or not. By getting 20 years, you will have one part of the CRDP eligibility boxed checked. The other CRDP box to check is 50% or more VA disability rating. The benefits of a medical retirement are you can get a higher payout percentage (more than the 2.5% times years of service) and it provides tax-free Service retirement pay. CRDP doesn’t care whether your retirement was medical or not.
If your disabilities are combat-related, it doesn’t matter if you have 20 years prior to a medical retirement. CRSC, the combat-related concurrent receipt program, pays members with less than 20 years.
Get your 20 years to be eligible for both programs.
Stephen W. If you are a military retiree, you receive a military retirement check. If you are VA disability rated, you receive a second separate check from the VA based on your VA rating.
In the past, members who received a Service retirement check and a VA disability check had the VA check amount subtracted from their Service retirement check. The Service check indicates what’s known as a “VA Waiver” amount–the amount you waived and was docked from your Service pay to receive the VA check.
CRDP eliminates the VA Waiver amount from your Service pay so you go back to receiving a Service check in full and a VA check in full. Two separate forms of pay.
Thanks for the info Shane!
Very much appreciated. The bottom line is make sure I get to my 20 years. Which, in my case, I’m pretty sure I will get there. And then have them medically retire me due to I may receive a better % of my base pay. Also, when they medically retire you, they use the paygrade you are at when they medically retire you…vice the highest 3 years paid and average that.
Is that basically what your telling me?
I was a bit worried because I just advanced to Chief/E-7 in the Navy and there is a requirement to retire as an E-7 you need to have atleast 24 months in that paygrade.
What are the tax advantages on your retirement pay if you retire medically? I understand the CRDP, which is basically my pension returning to me, is taxed and the VA disability compensation is not taxed.
Thanks again Shane.
Respectfully,
Stephen W.
Shane,
Based on changes to my VA disability status I recently read your article. It is one of the best articles I’ve read on the subject and a great help in my understanding of CRDP and how it may effect me. However, I had a couple of questions. My situation may be a bit unique but I doubt my questions on retroactive CRDP and retroactive service connection are.
Background:
++Retired in 2000 with 30 yrs active duty in USCG
++At retirement VA rating of 30 % disability—not combat related.
++CG retired pay reduced at VA rate for 30%.
++In 2003 diagnosed with an brain tumor. This diagnosis was based a seizure which was significant enough to result in a heart attack—first indication of the tumor’s existence. The tumor location makes it inoperable so I continue to have seizures. Chemo has helped deter the tumor’s growth.
++In 2007 I was told by a fellow retiree via the USCG retiree “grapevine” that my tumor may be service related due ionizing radiation that I was exposed to while serving at one overseas and one CONUS tour. Evidently the ionizing radiation was present but tests conducted by USCG at the time but did not consider it a factor for concern (no special protection, safety precautions, badges etc) ergo no special medical concern/tests when retiring.
++I applied for service related connection for the brain tumor in 2007.
++In Oct 2011 I rcvd the results of my service related request with a VA disability rating of 100%–not combat related. This was determined based on support and information from my fellow USCG retirees, DAV, and formal tests recently conducted by the USCG that documented the presence of ionizing radiation.
My Questions:
++I believe that CRDP applies but I am unsure how and what to expect (amount, time it would take to come into effect, required work on my part). What information can you provide?
++Per the VA the 100% disability will be based on the initiation of the claim back in 2007. However, the type of tumor I have would have begun prior to my retirement (documented opinions of several doctors). Given that the no indication of its existence prior to 2003 and it was outside of the scope of the retirement physical (at the time there was no concern over ionizing radiation). Is there precedence to support that my disability rating would be made retroactive to the date the tumor was diagnosed in 2003 not the request for service connection?
Any assistance would be appreciated. I am also contacting my local DAV representative.
Again great article.
Thanks,
Tom
I have the formal DoD/USCG report documenting that the ionizing radiation exists. I can provide it should you desire (in pdf). The ionizing radiation is from vacuum tubes used high power rf transmitting equipment e.g., Loran stations and possibly communication stations.
Tom, You will be automatically awarded CRDP by the USCG as a result of your VA rating of 100%–anything at 50% or over qualifies and as long as you are a 20 year or more years retiree. 100% rating gets you full CRDP restoration of retired pay immediately back to the retro approval date of your VA claim, 2007. Because CRDP is a restoration of retired pay you were denied due to the VA Waiver in your retired pay, the VA waiver will be removed from this point forward. Any retired pay you were docked by the VA Waiver back to 2007 will be paid in a lump sum retro payment–add up your VA waiver amounts for an idea. Plus your will get retro VA comp back to 2007 for the difference between your previous 30% rating and the 100% rating comp level. You’ll have to work with a Vet Service Officer to determine whether the claim due to the cancer can be appealed to make effective back to 2003. The CRDP part is in the CG ballpark now, you do nothing. Not sure how fast the CG pay shop works but it will be at least a month worse case 2.
Shane,
Thanks for the extremely fast turn around and the information. I was especially glad to have you clear up the items on the retroactive benefits… wasn’t mentioned in the VA decision. Also, you confirmed what I thought on the spilit responsibility for retroactive actions; I’ll use that to talk to the two reps.
Appreciate your time and advice!
Tom
My father was rated with agent orange 100% disability as of May 2011. He had put in for the disability in 1998 and was denied. When he received a letter last year stating they now connect agent orange to his disease he reapplied and was awarded. He has since passed away. Will there be any retroactive pay from 1998 until May of 2011 that my mother would receive as his beneficiary?
I appreciate any info you have on this.
Thank you,
KG
Please help me understand. I was medically retired with 20.3 years active duty service and received a DoD rating of 80%. With a 100% VA rating, will I be paid the appx $3000/mo VA compensation plus my 75% retirement pay (max allowed by law)?
In the article, it says the extra 25% in retirement pay I’m receiving is for disability. Is this amount or percentage subtracted from what I’ll get from the VA?
Doug Strand, members with VA disability compensation always get full VA comp for their rating. It’s the Service pay that’s docked. You will get full VA comp. The Service pay is docked by the VA comp amount, which is the VA Waiver amount. Then because you qualify for full CRDP, your Service pay will be restored up to the amount you earned from years of service. With 20 years of service, your retired pay amount would have been at 50% base pay. You got 75% due to your Service disability rating. So approx 1/3rd of your pay is due to disability. CRDP and CRSC restore longevity pay amounts; not disability pay amounts–in your Service check.
I receive CRDP since 2008 and I’m 60% VA disabled. My question is that when I got the first award it was about 1/2 of what I thought it should have been. I applied in November 2007 and got the approval in July 2008. When I called the VA and my service center I got some crazy statement that once the CRDP is phased out I would receive the rest of the money owed to me. Is this true? I not really holding my breathe on this but in this economy it would be a nice surprise.
Jim, CRDP is being phased in over the years. In 2014, it will be completely phased in. Meaning, you will receive all your Service retired pay that is based on longevity–your retired pay based on actual years served. You will not receive Service retired pay by way of CRDP that is based on disability pay. In other words, you will not receive CRDP money for any amount of Service retired pay over the formula: (2 1/2% x years served x base pay at retirement). Example at 20 years service, you get 50% of base pay for retirement. This is pay for vested years of service. If you were medically retired, your retired pay is based on your medical rating…say a disability rating of 60%. If you have 20 years of service at 50% payout and you get 60% based on medical rating, CRDP won’t restore the extra 10% you get for a disability. You get CRDP restoration for time served only. Shane
Just finished reading your original article and all the discussions — great information. I retired with 21 years of service and was awarded a VA disability rating of 80% after retirement. I currently receive CRSC in the correct amount. I noticed two entries on the CRSC Pay Statement from DFAS that I have not been able to decipher from my web searches: (1) Unemployable (the statement currently reads “NO”), and (2) Purple Heart % (the statement currently reads “00″). I am in the process of requesting an increase in my VA rating to 100%, as well as being declared Unemployable. I expect both conditions to be approved soon. I also was awarded a Purple Heart in Vietnam. Is there a benefit to making that known to the CRSC people? What will happen to my CRSC payment when I am classified as Unemployable?
Thanks
Kolesar, being awarded the VA’s unemployable tag, actually known as “Individual Unemployability” or “IU” has an important distinction in the payment of CRSC.
To be tagged “IU” by the VA means you will receive CRSC at the 100% level even if your VA rating is something less than 100%. Eligibility for the IU tag typically starts at the 60% VA rating. The being unemployable and rating the nature of your disabilities are two different standards. You could be 60% rated but the nature of your 60% disability makes you unemployable. Same but opposite is true with a 100% rating but the nature of those 100% disabilities don’t stop you from working.
Without the IU tag, you are paid at the CRSC rating determined by your Service. So, even if you are rated 100% by the VA, but without the IU tag, your CRSC rating will determine your CRSC payment amount.
Receipt of a Purple Heart presumes the nature of a disability as ‘combat’ in nature. It’s not directly tied to an amount of pay but it supports the case that a disability was combat related. For some folks, the first hurtle to qualifying for CRSC is the determination of the combat related nature of the disability.
Mr. Shane,
I am medically retired E-6 rated at 70% combat related(Chapter 61) after 8 years 3 months in the army. CRSC rated me 90% but DEFAS can’t submit payment because of an error. Supposedly that is being fixed. My retirement amount is 1277.00 (DOD) and is waived by the VA. I am currently 100% with the VA, $3087.00 monthly. I have a wife and two kids. I was medically retired from the army back in 2007. My base pay at retirement was 2744.00 and high three was 2264.00. I am confused over the whole process.
Should I even be worrying about getting anything back? Someone told me I won’t get anything and that it was a waste of time. I am wondering if he’s right. Do you think I will get anything back?
V/r,
SSG(RET) Hyatt, Randall
SSG Randall, some rough back of the envelop figuring indicates CRSC is worth it. You won’t be made close to whole in your Service retired pay but my estimate is you’ll see a few hundred dollars a month in tax-free CRSC. You should see all your Service longevity retired pay restored which is roughly 20% of your entitled total gross Service retired pay.
Mr. Shane,
Thank you very much. I got hit pretty hard and my big head ain’t workin right. If I could have figured it out I would have. HA! Thanks again though, my wife is doing all my paperwork and she is helping me out. She is relieved by what you have written. Makes her feel like she’s not doing it for nothing.
V/r,
SSG(RET) Hyatt, Randall
Mr. Shane,
Just a heads up. DFAS called today and I am getting $530.00 starting in Feb. Thanks again for your help!
V/r,
SSG(RET) Hyatt, Randall
Shane- First of all, I am so lucky at having found these discussions. Thank you for all that you do for all of us mis-informed VETS.
My question is does everybody get paid a VA Comp when they are disabled? I’ve seen the term several times in these posts. If someone is retired with over 20 years of active service and receiving CRDP at the 100% rate should they also receive some type of VA Comp? I’m just asking because there is still mush that I do not understand.
Steve, it’s too bad these programs have to be so complicated. It seems pay issues should be pretty straight forward. To become eligible for CRDP or CRSC, you have to receive VA disability compensation. VA compensation is subtracted from military retired pay. CRDP/CRSC are designed to replace all or a portion of your military retired pay reduced by the receipt of VA comp. If you don’t have VA disability comp, your military retired pay isn’t reduced and there’s no need for CRDP/CRSC.
To receive VA disability comp, you have to apply for a disability rating to the VA. The VA reviews your claim to determine if your disability was caused by your service in the military and determines the nature and degree of severity of the disability. Once approved, the VA assigns a disability rating and the rating determines the amount of compensation. Here are the ratings and levels of compensation: http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/Rates/comp01.htm. To apply to the VA for disability comp, you should work with a Veteran Service Office (VSO). VSOs are authorized and trained to handle VA cases–services are free. For your local VSOs look here: http://www.va.gov/statedva.htm andhttp://www1.va.gov/vso/index.cfm and http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/compensation/ and http://www.va.gov/opa/newtova.asp.
Best wishes…Shane
I was in the Air Force for 8 years 7 months. I was placed on TDRL for 2 years with 80% Disability and got permanent retirement at 60%. This whole time I have been receiving 100% (service connected, not from physical involvement in war) VA Disibility. As soon as I was permanently retired they stopped or “waived” my retirement pay (I was certainly not expecting this because when I went through TAPS I was told that if you recieve 100% from the VA you get both) I had called and talked to the retirement pay personnel and was told that there was nothing I could do because I did not complete 20 years, I was not in direct combat and I do not have 100% Disibility through the AirForce. Is this person right, do I fall under the glitch in the system or should I be trying something else? I am at a loss because I can’t get a job due to my conditions because I have a good amount of doc appointments to attend and I am almost always sick or in pain.
Thanks,
Stephanie
There are two types of concurrent receipt; non-combat CRDP or combat CRSC. CRDP requires both a 20-year retirement and a 50% or greater VA rating. Only the combat-related version, CRSC, allows less than a 20-year retirement for eligibility. But CRSC also requires disabilities/illnesses directly related to combat activities. CRSC is not limited to a specific disability rating, VA or Service; it accepts all ratings. However, you have to apply to the Service and the Service has to rate the portion of your disabilities specifically related to combat action and that Service combat rating determines the amount of CRSC. It’s not unusual for the CRSC rating to be less than the Service medical retirement disability rating and the VA rating because when considering only the combat portion of disabilities, they may be less than the reasons for all disabilities combined. MOAA continues to fight on the Hill to make everyone with disabilities eligible for some form of concurrent receipt. Shane
Shane- First of all, I am more knowledgeable reading your comments to better help my fellow military VETs, and medical retirees.
My question is I was just received 100% CRDP and notices I don’t receive the full amount which should be $2,873 vet w/child.
I notice on my DFAC statement is say max I can receive is $2,430 which match my current amount of retirement pay.
When I retired my pay was $ 3,148 and I got divorce and due to ex-spouse law she receives $675 which decreases my retirement salary.
I feel that I am getting punish twice by the courts which to 675 and now VA which is NOT giving my full Entitlements. Can you give me advice?
r/ VET.
Gregory, from reading your comments, it sounds like your situation is a bit complex and hard to fully understand or explain in this limited space. But generally, if I’m understanding things correctly… You must be a Service medical retiree. I’m guessing your Service disability rating is greater than the Service longevity credit you got for retirement purposes. As an example, if your Service disability rating for medical retirement was 70% and if you had been retired due to longevity (years-of-service) your payout would have been a lesser percentage (2.5% times years-of-service). Your CRDP is based on the lesser years-of-service payout. That’s why although your VA rating is at 100% w/child and your CRDP is 100%, your CRDP is less than full retired pay restoration of your VA waiver compensation. It’s because the CRDP is capped at your longevity (years-of-service) payout percentage. Plus CRDP is eligible for the former spouse split. Call if you need to…Shane
I just retired with 26 years from the Air Force on 1 Sep 2011. I am already receiving my retirement pay every month. I applied for disability a couple months before retiring and finally received my VA packet showing my rating (80%) and how much I will get paid. When I went through the Transition Assistance Program on base, we were told that it would take a while before the VA compensation was decided and then paid, but not to worry because they would back pay starting with the 1st day of retirement.
My payments should have started with Sep 2011 (being paid on 1 Oct), but the table in the letter shows 1 Oct 2011 amount withheld. There is no entry for 1 Nov 2011. Entry for 1 Dec 2011 shows amount withheld. Next entry shows 1 Feb 2012 with amount paid. It is now 10 Feb 2012 and I haven’t been paid anything. I called yesterday to ask about pay. I was told I couldn’t get paid full retirement and disability, so the VA was withholding my pay. They said I wouldn’t get my first disability check until 1 March 2012. When I asked about being paid from 1 Sep 2011 until now, I was told NO, I wouldn’t get paid any money for that period. I mentioned the CRDP and was told that I didn’t qualify for that. What is happening is not what I have been told should happen.
Edward, something isn’t right and it seems there is another piece to this puzzle I’m missing. Just so you know CRDP is a DOD program administered by DFAS so the VA has nothing to do with it. Was part of your VA applcation paperwork a VA Waiver authorization; where you agree to waive Service retired pay to receive VA disability compensation? You should have signed a VA Waiver and submited it to the VA or DFAS. Were you early separated with separation pay and you came back later on active duty or Reserve duty to finally retire? Call me at MOAA if you wish, (800)234-6622.
Question I will be chap 61 retires as a MSG with 24 years total service 18.5 active.
I will have a 100% va rating, 80% combat related
My Army rating is 90% with combat related being 80%
Is the only route I have CRSC? If so do I apply as soon as I retire?
Thanks for the help
MSG Giese, there are 2 types of concurrent receipt as we discuss in the article, CRDP and CRSC. Because you will be medically retired, which is an active duty retirement, you will be credited with the 18.5 years of service. Having less than 20 years of service for retirement purposes means you are eligible for CRSC only. CRDP requires a 20(+) year retirement. Upon receipt of retired pay and VA compensation, apply to the Army for CRSC. You can start the paperwork now and have it ready to go upon retirement.
https://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/CRSC
https://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/Apply%20for%20CRSC
Best wishes…Shane
Shane
thanks so much for the feedback its helpful! I will get that ASAP! I truly appreciate it!
Shane, Great article and appreciate your help… My status is that I was medically retired as a Navy Chief after 18 years of Active Duty service. My diagnosis is PTSD due to combat. I understand that I did not make 20 yrs so am not eligible for CRDP. I just received a 90% VA disability rating with 50% for PTSD. I have been receiving 50% military retirement but with my VA rating higher am applying for the waiver to receive the VA pay. I have already applied for CRSC but since I haven’t received any VA pay yet they can’t start my CRSC. The question I have is, do you have any idea a) how long it takes to start receiving CRSC pay, b) how much should I expect(ballpark?) and c) do I get backpay for CRSC since it has taken 9 months for the VA to give me a rating?…
Here,s a confusing and misunderstood predicament… im 100 % p/t iu from combat in beirut lebanon 1983 i was wounded 12 sept 83 went back inland and was part of the dig bag and tag etc. of marines who were the bravest of the bravest trying to save lives from the oct 23 1983 bombing of the marine baraacks … finished my time (with a few minor stupid mistakes) honorable discharged .. went to work for the post office where the knowledge on DAV was ..nothing so in 10 years i went from 10 to 30 to 50 to 70 to 100%…PTSD tinnitus scars from wounds etc. well the usps forged documents to screw me out of civil service time . yet my main question would be now that it took all that time for doctors to finally p an t me im being … what avenues would you suggest to take to recieve whatever benifits ..military retirement crsc ????? beirut disabled combat Marine veteran tottaly lost now and for the last 10yrs